Snep :floofHappy:
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Snep :floofHappy:'s Bio
he/him :: 23y/o :: school sysadmin, IT enthusiast and furry from Hamburg :: Speaks Ger/Eng :: Meoww!
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Snep :floofHappy:'s Posts
Snep :floofHappy: has 13 posts.
Snep :floofHappy:
In response to this post@gsuberland The workflow is a little different between the two, that's for sure!
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Snep :floofHappy:
In response to this post@gsuberland That's true, but as with every patch applied to any piece of software, it's a good idea to look into the newest version and what has changed before applying existing patches. In a VM, jail or LXC, you would've had to manually check the target file with each update of the software to see if it has changed and then apply the patch manually if not. Sounds like the same kind and roughly the same amount of effort as you would have with a dockerized implementation ^^
@snep if the patch was wiped away it would at least be in stock condition, and re-applying the patch would be familiar.
by Graham Sutherland / Polynomial ;
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Snep :floofHappy:
In response to this post@gsuberland Don't see why it should unless file paths change inside the container if you're just patching one file!
@snep if the update changes anything beyond just your one edit, you now have one file mismatched from the rest of the app, which will probably break things. maybe even causing data loss if you get unlucky.
by Graham Sutherland / Polynomial ;
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Snep :floofHappy:
In response to this post@gsuberland At that point, they're roughly at the same level of annoying to me going after my own experience, but that of course differs grwatly depending on what someone is used to dealing and troubleshooting/fixing with
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Snep :floofHappy:
In response to this post@gsuberland Yeahh, that definitely is annoying whenever it happens. I'm surprised the bug remained for this long, but some devs teams are like that, I s'pose.
Though, at least with regular Docker, you should still be able to get updates even when you've built a patched Dockerfile ontop of another container. If you specify to always use the latest version of a container as a base, your changes will be applied on top of the most up-to-date version with each rebuild you kick off.
@snep which would break on update, no doubt
by Graham Sutherland / Polynomial ;
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Snep :floofHappy:
In response to this post@gsuberland @dragonarchitect Ahh, gotcha. I'm a big LXC fan (e.g. under Proxmox and OpenWRT) and install a lot of my services by hand still, but I've always felt maintaining those is /more/ effort than a pre-built container based solution, simply because you can't just pull the latest container and be done with it, you have to update the base OS and the application on top individually for each jail/LXC :/
@snep @dragonarchitect it's lower friction if it's a commodity app and you never need to touch anything but the supported config, but beyond that it's so much more complexity and effort
by Graham Sutherland / Polynomial ;
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Snep :floofHappy:
In response to this post@gsuberland @dragonarchitect Might be an interesting Sunday kind-of project, yeah ^^
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Snep :floofHappy:
In response to this post@gsuberland @dragonarchitect You certainly could, nothing there is out of the realms for immutable containers! Although, granted, by the sounds of how they implemented their GUI under TrueNAS for it, it /will/ be more tedious to those used to installing their services and scripts manually from a shell ontop a base OS install, a learning curve, if you will
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Snep :floofHappy:
In response to this post@gsuberland @dragonarchitect I know that I most likely can't say anything that won't sound like me trying to evangelize you over to Docker, which isn't really my intention in any way, I'm just curious about your viewpoints. But I will say that it sounds roughly like the same amount of work to set this up, be it with Docker or in a jail!
@snep @dragonarchitect feel free to try doing it in TrueNAS SCALE and see how it goes.
by Graham Sutherland / Polynomial ;
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Snep :floofHappy:
In response to this post@gsuberland @dragonarchitect So it was basically a blank container akin to LXCs that you've got to install your own software into? Where there templates with already pre-set up applications and maintainers behind those?
@snep @dragonarchitect they had "plugins" which were maintained scripts that configured/updated a specific thing in a jail for you, e.g. for Plex or whatever, but you could manually do it by just creating a jail and using it like its own little OS (event though it was running on the same kernel; very similar to lxc)
by Graham Sutherland / Polynomial ;
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Snep :floofHappy:
In response to this post@gsuberland @dragonarchitect It really just sounds like a bad implementation in this case that disallows proper customization in the GUI of installed containers. I've never done any work with any CI/CD or IaaS implemenations and I still think Docker is great for single instance applications /because/ the containers can reliably be set up in a repeatable way on any machine the engine runs on, /because/ they are immutable outside of mount points and env variables. Less friction than DIYing it IMO
@snep @dragonarchitect so one example of a major friction point here is when things have bugs. a while back I had installed a popular webapp thing in a jail. they also publish it via docker. there was a bug that affected my install. I reported it and sent a PR but it didn't get fixed in a release for 9 months.
on CORE: `iocage console thething; nano /path/to/broken.file` and patch it
on SCALE: haha hope you like maintaining and publishing your own dockerfiles (also you don't get updates now)
by Graham Sutherland / Polynomial ;
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Snep :floofHappy:
In response to this post@gsuberland @dragonarchitect I wonder, what use case do you mean exactly? Installing extra server apps onto a NAS OS? Because I feel like a (proper!) Docker implementation is perfect for that, compared to LXC containers or VMs for example
@snep @dragonarchitect to give you an example of how nice this was on CORE:
create jail
it has its own IP
you can mount paths from the pool onto it
you install stuff just like you would anywhere else
that's it
by Graham Sutherland / Polynomial ;
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Snep :floofHappy:
In response to this post@gsuberland @dragonarchitect But isn't that the core idea of Docker anyways? It is weird you can't set up an internal Docker network and have services be forced to use the Host network mode, but being unable to make persistent chages to files inside a Docker container that aren't mounted in from the outside without creating a custom Dockerfile and thus a custom Docker container based on another one is what Docker is all about after all 🤔
@snep @dragonarchitect yes and it's shit for this kind of use case
by Graham Sutherland / Polynomial ;
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